tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275372772077650637.post803311987184939509..comments2024-03-18T09:47:18.076-07:00Comments on Forever a student: Learning a difficult language – Part 2.Vladimirhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05898612218295828520noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275372772077650637.post-9029010196602077922020-11-20T06:50:06.052-08:002020-11-20T06:50:06.052-08:00Hi,
another thing that I forgot to mention is, t...Hi, <br /><br />another thing that I forgot to mention is, that HSK tests are simply mis-labeled. HSK6 is definitely not a C2 level test.<br /><br />I wrote a few articles about learning Mandarin Chinese specifically. Some are long, but some are really short. Maybe you can try looking at those.<br /><br />https://www.foreverastudent.com/2011/07/speak-fluent-chinese.html<br /><br />https://www.foreverastudent.com/2019/02/a-basic-roadmap-to-learning-mandarin.html<br /><br />https://www.foreverastudent.com/2019/02/resources-for-learning-mandarin-chinese.html<br /><br />https://www.foreverastudent.com/2011/10/mandarin-chinese-tones-sound-only.html<br /><br />https://www.foreverastudent.com/2011/03/learning-difficult-language-part-1.html<br /><br />Hope you can find some answers there,<br /><br />Vladimir<br /><br />Vladimirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05898612218295828520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275372772077650637.post-51249971434327693142020-11-20T04:55:55.073-08:002020-11-20T04:55:55.073-08:00I understand, it goes much deeper than I thought, ...I understand, it goes much deeper than I thought, I have no experience with Mandarin, so I have little idea of what is measurable, certainly passing this test does not mean fluency mainly in a language like Mandarin. The problem is that it is difficult to find content that is really good, as it is a difficult language like that, and so far from Indo-European languages. But I also think that there are some shortcuts for this type of language, and it is in these types of patterns that I was looking for, normally I found people who took 5 6 7 years to reach an intermediate level to pass this test, however, you have a lot of experience with the language and really has a good level, do you believe that there are some shortcuts or principles that really make learning that language easier? For example, in your post about easy languages, the focus would be on hearing the language a lot precisely because it is similar to phonetics and vocabulary, but would you have a focus schedule in the case of languages like Mandarin? For instance, focus on reading, listening, or learning pronunciation from the beginning, learning the characters from the beginning, because everything is really different and new and you cannot use the knowledge of any other language that I speak to help assimilate the mandarin. Except for the high exposure to the language, being with natives, talking and listening, of course, is it possible to reach a certain level with the language to at least consume a certain type of input without being somewhere that speaks the language?<br />Thanks for the feedback, all the best for you.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07468809818443389179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275372772077650637.post-74868649296699144672020-11-15T06:27:29.624-08:002020-11-15T06:27:29.624-08:00Hello,
if you're specifically asking me abou...Hello, <br /><br />if you're specifically asking me about my opinion about his methods which helped him pass HSK 6, I won't be able to answer unfortunately, because I don't have the time to watch this 32 minute video:) I'm not involved with language learning anymore and it objectively just isn't a lot of fun to watch a video like this.<br /><br />But..I did look at it for a bit and looked at his other videos too, so I can at least give you my opinion based on that, if it's ok: <br /><br />1) It's actually not 'that' hard to pass an HSK 6 test. It's not easy either, but it is not that hard. Years ago (13 or 14 years ago) I read about a Swedish guy who passed it after only 6 months of studying and without leaving Sweden. That says a lot about how difficult or easy it is I think. <br /><br />2) As far as I understand, HSK is a passive test, which is quite heavy on vocabulary memorization. I don't know which methods this guy used, but memorizing words and characters is really not that hard if you use memory techniques. I have a memory champion friend who can remember thousands of words in days if not hours if necessary using these techniques. It is, of course, a lot harder to learn how to use all these words once you know them, but HSK, as far as I understand, doesn't test you on speaking and speaking is the only part which is really difficult.<br /><br />Reading, writing even listening and saying something you prepared, if you want to sound good in Mandarin, or read/write something fairly complicated - these these are tasks which don't require a lot of functional knowledge. Fast dialogue broken up with monologue does and I don't think HSK tests that.<br /><br />3) You didn't ask this, but passing HSK 6 and speaking Mandarin really well are two things that are not too related. <br /><br />I tried to find a video of this person actually speaking Mandarin, but I couldn't find any. I could only find one video where he was interacting with locals (taken roughly at the time he took the HSK 6 test). I don't know what level HSK 6 is (A1-C2), but from what I could hear in that video, his Mandarin was about B1-B2. But to be fair, I didn't hear too much. I could only guess based on his interactions with locals - what sentences he chose, how culturally aware he was etc. <br /><br />In either case, the question is: Would I recommend his videos if someone would like to pass HSK 6? I think yes.Vladimirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05898612218295828520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275372772077650637.post-71537293075916663352020-11-15T04:54:23.713-08:002020-11-15T04:54:23.713-08:00Hey Vlad! There is a German guy who made a video i...Hey Vlad! There is a German guy who made a video in Portuguese saying how he managed to pass the HSK 6 of Mandarin in 1 year and 8 months, it is really incredible, I would like to know your opinion about the methods he said, certainly they must be very good. I think you can speak Portuguese then, hahaha.<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIuZ78fNgXk&t=1sAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07468809818443389179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275372772077650637.post-17968433084636567152017-11-08T02:12:44.610-08:002017-11-08T02:12:44.610-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04303778563447240187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275372772077650637.post-64951651813320240432017-11-08T01:49:22.088-08:002017-11-08T01:49:22.088-08:00Hello. I have WeChat, but I don't use it too m...Hello. I have WeChat, but I don't use it too much:)Vladimirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05898612218295828520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275372772077650637.post-44302473702488950042017-11-08T01:45:05.921-08:002017-11-08T01:45:05.921-08:00Hi, Vlad.
Do you have WeChat or Weibo ID, which m...Hi, Vlad. <br />Do you have WeChat or Weibo ID, which might be the best way to acquire informal Chinese [simplified:) ] and a great access to people in China [uh... of course, some brainwashed by CCP's deranged nationalism :) ] <br />Anyway, go and try it, if you haven't got one.<br />If you've got one, wish you write an article talking about Chinese informal language.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04303778563447240187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275372772077650637.post-9635199661661098462011-04-28T06:10:14.002-07:002011-04-28T06:10:14.002-07:00Dear Ryan,
Thank you for the comment. If the arti...Dear Ryan,<br /><br />Thank you for the comment. If the articles sound discouraging, it really wasn’t my intention. I was only trying to give my opinion on the difficulty of Mandarin and I did say in the end that it is of course possible to learn this language, it’s just that it takes a lot more effort, time and if possible a very different approach, which I'd love for someone to summarize. I think that the current Mandarin instruction methods are counterproductive simply because everything that worked for me and for the few people that I know that speak Mandarin incredibly well has nothing to do with what you can see in any course or university. (This is not to say that I speak Mandarin incredibly well:) <br /><br />I would love to develop a perfect course or a method for this language that would really work, but unfortunately it is a task well beyond my possibilities. What I feel is, that ideally a similar course would deal with the problems that I have pointed out in the two articles in a way, that the students would not even notice them and yet overcome them, combine the best one can get from natural acquisition while speeding up the process as much as possible by introducing very well structured material just at the right time which would gradually get more and more complex without being boring or artificial. This is almost an impossible thing for me to do at this point. Right now, I can only try to give some pointers here and there on how to improve certain aspects of one’s Mandarin proficiency, or at least try to sum up what did and did not work for me, because I don’t trust myself to work on a bigger project alone. <br /><br />I could try to talk to those who became close to native in Mandarin, sit down with them and analyze what exactly made the difference over the years of studies for them and then develop a simple user-friendly course. <br /><br />VladimirVladimirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05898612218295828520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275372772077650637.post-85798384530282498792011-04-27T09:52:51.575-07:002011-04-27T09:52:51.575-07:00You are obviously a talented and enthusiastic poly...You are obviously a talented and enthusiastic polyglot which is why I was disappointed by these two articles. You make Chinese sound impossible and Chinese foreign language instruction sound counterproductive. You speak Chinese well; Luca Lampariello has learned it well without a teacher or going to a Chinese speaking country and Steve Kaufmann from Linq learned it in Cantonese speaking Hong Kong, mainly on his own. So it can be done.<br /><br />You've left us on a cliff-hanger. I am very much looking forward to your suggestions and ideas for learning Chinese more effectively.Ryanhttp://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275372772077650637.post-65097046475473187662011-04-15T02:50:48.118-07:002011-04-15T02:50:48.118-07:00I'm very flattered to hear this kind of suppor...I'm very flattered to hear this kind of support.<br /><br />I have to admit, I was too lazy in the last couple of weeks, but I am working on something that I hope will be very helpful. <br /><br />I'm working on an excel file where I am trying to crack down the Mandarin syllables, trying to figure out which ones actually exist (and which tonal/syllable combinations are impossible) and out of the existing ones identify those that I actually use in everyday speech.<br /><br />I know there are pinyin charts that consist solely of possible syllable/tone combinations but from what I've seen, in these charts there are a lot of characters/words that people rarely use. <br /><br />What I want to do, is really crack down the language in terms of syllable/tone combinations and come up with a basis for pronunciation training for beginners that is based on absolutely useful living language at the same time. <br /><br />As I wrote in the articles, I think that we as students are very confused when it comes to Mandarin pronunciation among other things, because we expect much more combinations then there really are. I also hope to shift the students memorization process from visual to audio only, so that while learning a new word one will not have to write down it's pinyin only point to a sound of a word/syllable you already know how to pronounce correctly. These sounds that I would "point to" would all be in this "pronunciation basis" which in turn will be derived from the excel file I am working on right now.<br /><br />In the file, I am also trying to write down all the characters for the words I use in daily life. I hope this will be useful, since these characters are again based on living language and not artificial frequency charts.Vladimirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05898612218295828520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275372772077650637.post-62190601888835667512011-04-15T01:58:23.180-07:002011-04-15T01:58:23.180-07:00Eagerly awaiting your next installment.Eagerly awaiting your next installment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275372772077650637.post-33805469161090194922011-03-15T06:54:07.116-07:002011-03-15T06:54:07.116-07:00Peter,
I will try to go more into detail with thi...Peter,<br /><br />I will try to go more into detail with this in the next recordings. These two were just a small introduction and a description of the difficulties that in my opinion Mandarin poses for us westerners. The problem is that since I tried so many different strategies (and most of them unfortunately didn't work) I will have to sum up the steps that were actually helpful and filter out a lot of the stuff that wasn't, which takes time so bare with me :)Vladimirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05898612218295828520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275372772077650637.post-61327066657434076752011-03-15T03:30:21.504-07:002011-03-15T03:30:21.504-07:00That would be great. I'm interested in how you...That would be great. I'm interested in how you actually learned Chinese. So far it's a bit vague.Peter J. Mykolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16598621798440586673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275372772077650637.post-17187240448552298312011-03-14T06:31:52.381-07:002011-03-14T06:31:52.381-07:00Dear Peter,
I'm glad you found the articles u...Dear Peter,<br /><br />I'm glad you found the articles useful. I will try to post Part 3 this weekend. <br /><br />all the bestVladimirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05898612218295828520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6275372772077650637.post-54421134775520175842011-03-14T06:12:21.137-07:002011-03-14T06:12:21.137-07:00Thank you so much for these! I'm currently lea...Thank you so much for these! I'm currently learning Mandarin and this information is very insightful. I love languages and my goal is to become a translator and interpreter. Where I live in Australia I hear Mandarin all the time because there are a lot of Chinese students studying here.Peter J. Mykolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16598621798440586673noreply@blogger.com